Could causes be the Creator?

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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby hegarty » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:33 pm

We look at things which appear to be causes and effects in the universe and we see that the most elevated cause possesses insufficient power for the most ordinary effect. This means that causes are a veil, and something else makes the effects. To take only a small example out of innumerable creatures let us consider the faculty of memory, which is situated in man’s head in a space as tiny as a mustard seed: we see that it is like a book so comprehensive -indeed, like a library- that within it is written without confusion the entire story of a person’s life.
What cause can be shown for this miracle of power? The grey matter of the brain? The simple unconscious particles of its cells? The winds of chance and coincidence? But that miracle of art can only be the work of an All-Wise Maker Who, in order to inform man that all the actions he has performed have been recorded and will be recalled at the time of accounting, writes out a small ledger from the great book of man’s deeds to be published at the resurrection, and gives it to the hand of his mind. Thus, since they are comparable to man’s faculty of memory, make an analogy with all eggs, seeds, and grains, and then compare other effects to these small and comprehensive miracles. Because whichever effect and work of art you look at, it contains such wonderful art that not only its common, simple cause, but if all causes were to gather, they would declare their impotence before it.
What do you think about it?
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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby askook » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:33 pm

We look at things which appear to be causes and effects in the universe and we see that the most elevated cause possesses insufficient power for the most ordinary effect. This means that causes are a veil, and something else makes the effects. To take only a small example out of innumerable creatures let us consider the faculty of memory, which is situated in man’s head in a space as tiny as a mustard seed: we see that it is like a book so comprehensive -indeed, like a library- that within it is written without confusion the entire story of a person’s life.
What cause can be shown for this miracle of power? The grey matter of the brain? The simple unconscious particles of its cells? The winds of chance and coincidence? But that miracle of art can only be the work of an All-Wise Maker Who, in order to inform man that all the actions he has performed have been recorded and will be recalled at the time of accounting, writes out a small ledger from the great book of man’s deeds to be published at the resurrection, and gives it to the hand of his mind. Thus, since they are comparable to man’s faculty of memory, make an analogy with all eggs, seeds, and grains, and then compare other effects to these small and comprehensive miracles. Because whichever effect and work of art you look at, it contains such wonderful art that not only its common, simple cause, but if all causes were to gather, they would declare their impotence before it.
What do you think about it?
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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby starr59 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:34 pm

Does God exist?
• Everything which has a beginning has a cause.
• The universe has a beginning.
• Therefore the universe has a cause.

The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so does not need a cause. In addition, Einstein's general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space at the beginning of the universe. Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, He is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so He has no beginning in time.

Therefore He does not have, or need to have, a cause.
In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.
1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
2nd Law: The amount of energy in the universe available for work is running down, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy and reached what is known as 'heat death'. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible. So the best solution is that the universe must have been created with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.

Now, what if the questioner accepts that the universe had a beginning, but not that it needs a cause? But it is self-evident that things that begin have a cause — no one really denies it in their heart. All science, history and law enforcement would collapse if this law of cause and effect were denied. Also, the universe cannot be self-caused — nothing can create itself, because it would need to exist before it came into existence, a logical absurdity.

C S Lewis expands on the idea and shows why the non Christian really has no logical alternative but to accept that Jesus is God:

“I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God.” That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse.

You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. “
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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby tanjiro » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:36 pm

NO, DAMMIT! Computer scientists understand how information works and the physical propierties of it, and neurologists understand how the brain process information. Hell, even i understand the basics and im just an undergrad. YOUR IGNORANCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING.
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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby mufidy50 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:44 pm

In the natural world, there is only nature.

The supernatural (all of it) is a product of human imaginings.

It really is that simple.
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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby siwili » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:56 pm

I think we're all just scared little babies. Some of us being afraid to admit that we don't have the answers.
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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby laurian36 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:57 pm

There is no God. It is all nature. Sure it is amazing but there are all sorts of clues that no God is at work or responsible. Look at all the brain malfunctions that happen. You have loss of memory which seems to get worse with age (sign of nature at work not God). Hallucinations sometimes drug induced (again letting us know that our brain is a natural function and dependent on our body chemistry for good health and function). You can continue to delude yourself since the brain is capable of that function as well or you can look for a real understanding of what nature is capable of. Nature does a lot of things that are not human friendly, not because nature is out to get us but because nature always works with the conditions that are available. That is why scientist try to understand nature so that they can get nature to react in favor of humans like in the medical field or even the field of electronics. You are able to have a computer do something meaningful because scientist figured out how to manipulate natures electrons.
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Could causes be the Creator?

Postby tupper59 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:04 pm

Today, after exposing your ignorance of nature, the universe at large, and pretty much everything else you have opted to tell us you don't know jack sh!t about neurospsychology. Quelle surprise.

And you keep making this connection:

I don't understand it/it is complex ------->>> therefore my god did it.

THIS DOES NOT FOLLOW IN ANY WAY. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
It's a complete non-sequitur. Even pretending for a moment you have ruled out any natural cause (you haven't, but I'll play along), the next logical step would NOT be "therefore my preferred version of sky daddy did it".

Get it through your thick skull already.
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